AN INTERVIEW WITH DR. TONY MEINERS, PSYD :: CLINICAL DIRECTOR

AUTISM COMMUNICATION + THE DOUBLE EMPATHY PROBLEM

Double empathy problem was also pretty revolutionary in the way that we viewed communication, especially with autistic folks. And Dr. Damien Milton in 2012 was kind of one of the first to say, Hey wait, we are so quick to say that autistic people can communicate or that they don’t know how to express things and it’s a one way street. And the reality is it’s actually a two way street. And with that, he did a lot of studies to where they took autistic folks, they put ’em in a group, had them communicate, had them talk through things, have them problem solve stuff.

WHAT DID THE DOUBLE EMPATHY PROBLEM STUDIES FIND?

They found that the autistic folks were able to experience empathy. They were able to build a rapport. There was no breakdown in communication. They did the exact same thing with just neurotypical people. Same thing. Have them talk through things, have them problem solve, have them, you know, just have conversations. They were able to have empathy, build a rapport, no breakdown in communication. The issue came when we mixed autistic folks and neurotypical folks, and the communication just totally kind of broke down. And why is that important? It’s because so much of autism is viewed as the onus of communicating lies on the autistic person. They need to change how they talk. They are the issue, but it’s not really the case. You know, both forms of communication and the way that we show up in the world are actually very accurate.

WHAT’S THE CONCLUDING ISSUE?

The issue is that sometimes they just don’t always mesh, you know? And the autistic people are usually the ones that have to be behaviorally “trained” to talk differently, to make eye contact, to understand certain aspects and social cues, you know? And my question is, why isn’t it ever the other way around? You know? ’cause both of them are accurate. And so that double empathy problem really kind of shows us that like, again, the issue is not the way that the autistic brain works. It’s not the way that they communicate. The issue is the expectation that neurotypical people have on how autistic people show up in this world. And as soon as you kind of take that expectation off of the neurodivergent folks and kind of put it back on neurotypical people as well, then you kind of really start to switch what the problem is here.